Encroachment upon the constitution is always upsetting to me. Separation of church and state is always important in terms of constitutional safeguards. What is Also upsetting, is that.vote was 5-0. That's an indication that there's a little philosophy dancing around.the doctrine of going along to getting along.
At the very least, Council member McArhur Wright should recuse himself when discussing, voting on items that are church, religion related. It seems obvious.
I feel the Council gives away city tax dollars to church organizations and Art related organizations that I would not like to support while using my tax dollars.
I would like to see more tax revenue spent on issues that aid the actual residents of 29 Palms.
Let's keep the separation of church and state firm.
I’ve also wondered why Wright hasn’t recused and I suspect it’s because he has no direct financial interest and that is usually the basis for recusals. Is it cronyism though? Yes, certainly.
I haven't read the whole article yet, but the gist of it sounds horrible. I totally disapprove of the City being so immersed in favoring religious organizations, no matter the denomination. I agree with all the other comments here. Yes, they're now emboldened, and G-d only knows what they'll try to stick us with come January. I'm so glad that you continue to monitor them and share the info.
The City Council and County Supervisors are deceptive!
Is separation of church and state dismissed because 29 Palms is a City and San Bernardino is a County?
Where is the "clear and transparent" government? Letters written by the Citizens of their jurisdiction, are ignored. There are no questions answered, only a timed platform for grievances.
The provision of a 3-minute platform for grievances, is not clear and transparent governance.
If assistance for food is provided deceptively, what else is provided deceptively?
If they felt what they were doing was right, why would their actions be, such as they are.
Why are they not loudly proclaiming, for all to hear; all that they are doing, or want to do, in the name of GOD, Jehovah, or Jesus Christ!
By their own actions, they hide what they truly want to achieve.
Should I start sewing Yellow Stars or Pink Triangles on my clothing?
neighbor. It was a beautiful, magnificent and absolutely perfect chilly morning when my cell screen had whiteout. So I'm back.
So "going along to getting along," especially concerning local government, is an anathema to the democratic form of government. Who among council members voted to go along to get along?
Both Jefferson and James Madison felt that state support for a particular religion or for any religion was improper. They argued that "compelling citizens to support through taxation a faith they did not follow violated their natural right to religious liberty.
Councilmember Wright ought to have reclused himself from the vote. There is the perception of impropriaty. Wright is not only a local pastor, but he is also the President of the local Ministerial Asociation. Doing the right thing is really a very simple task, and it's the honorable thing to do.
Are there not other local 503(c)(3) charitable organizations that ought to have been considered? Moreover in my view Countmember Wright has a glaring conflict of interest.
The ends justifying the means Is a concept put forth by Macchiavellian. He advocated the hell with what's honorable -- go with what you want. That wrong philosophy ought never to outweigh Constitutional safeguards.
We've written the City Manager and asked what other 501c3 organizations were considered (if any) and will update if we hear back. The question of recusal is difficult - that's usually based on financial interest. Does it look bad? Yes. But it's more likely cronyism than something that would justify recusal. Cronyism undercuts transparency though, and probably accounts for Council not having an RFP process for finding an appropriate nonprofit. The saddest part of this is how it undercuts the application. If Council had partnered with a nonprofit with experience in climate justice / environmental protection / climate resilience it would strengthen our application for a building we badly need.Still, even with CLEP as the partner, I hope the application works out.
As an atheist I object to any money going from the City to any religious organizations or churches. And they should all be paying taxes just like any other business as that is what they are. I also really object to the invocation at the start of city council meetings. The meaning of invocation is the following:
The invocation is the opening prayer in the worship service and is a prayer which humbly, yet confidently (Hebrews 4:16) “invokes” the presence of God in worship. It is the congregation's faith-filled response to the call to worship and is done on behalf of the congregation by the minister.
Firstly, there should be a separation of church and state. Next, a city council is no place to have and invocation. There is an assumption that everyone is a Christian. That is very far from the truth. There are many other religions with different beliefs, plus the Atheists and Agnostics.
And from my point of view, the invocation is insulting. I will continue to sit down and browse emails on my phone during the invocation and I suggest that everyone who agrees with me, is ahtheist, agnostic or is of a different religion, also sits down during the invocation.
I agree with you Tom, and I also sit during invocations, even when I am at the press table. While researching a follow up piece on cronyism (also in my articles in process list), I came across a series of z107.7 stories tracking conversations on Council about the invocation….and I hope to return to those.
Check out our Council recap from December 12, 2023, for Elliot Balsley’s invocation from The Satanic Temple, an organization dedicated to activism around church + state issues. We also have a church + state tab in our article index and wrote an editorial back in May 2023 —“Crossing the Line” — asking if a City actions promoting a Mayor’s Prayer Breakfast with City social media and the City seal violated church / state separations. The City received a cease and desist letter from the Freedom From Religion Foundation after that so they backed off on taxpayer funded promotion of religious activities for a while. The fight for City tolerance for all beliefs (or lack thereof) continues.
Thank you for the reply and comments. I am actually a member of the FFRF. I am glad that they got involved. We have only been here just over a year so I will look up those pages.
Encroachment upon the constitution is always upsetting to me. Separation of church and state is always important in terms of constitutional safeguards. What is Also upsetting, is that.vote was 5-0. That's an indication that there's a little philosophy dancing around.the doctrine of going along to getting along.
At the very least, Council member McArhur Wright should recuse himself when discussing, voting on items that are church, religion related. It seems obvious.
I feel the Council gives away city tax dollars to church organizations and Art related organizations that I would not like to support while using my tax dollars.
I would like to see more tax revenue spent on issues that aid the actual residents of 29 Palms.
Let's keep the separation of church and state firm.
I’ve also wondered why Wright hasn’t recused and I suspect it’s because he has no direct financial interest and that is usually the basis for recusals. Is it cronyism though? Yes, certainly.
I'll just say they are emboldened now. I fully expect more of this kind of city government to occur.
We just have to keep calling them out and do what we can to bring transparency Jeannine!
I haven't read the whole article yet, but the gist of it sounds horrible. I totally disapprove of the City being so immersed in favoring religious organizations, no matter the denomination. I agree with all the other comments here. Yes, they're now emboldened, and G-d only knows what they'll try to stick us with come January. I'm so glad that you continue to monitor them and share the info.
Thanks Janet.
I quit going to 29 city council meeting because of prayer! This is criminal!!!
And thanks for being a paid subscriber❤️
Cronyism, I assume?
Thank you for all of your reporting.
The City Council and County Supervisors are deceptive!
Is separation of church and state dismissed because 29 Palms is a City and San Bernardino is a County?
Where is the "clear and transparent" government? Letters written by the Citizens of their jurisdiction, are ignored. There are no questions answered, only a timed platform for grievances.
The provision of a 3-minute platform for grievances, is not clear and transparent governance.
If assistance for food is provided deceptively, what else is provided deceptively?
If they felt what they were doing was right, why would their actions be, such as they are.
Why are they not loudly proclaiming, for all to hear; all that they are doing, or want to do, in the name of GOD, Jehovah, or Jesus Christ!
By their own actions, they hide what they truly want to achieve.
Should I start sewing Yellow Stars or Pink Triangles on my clothing?
Thanks for the thank you Sean.
I was walking my dog this morning with a
neighbor. It was a beautiful, magnificent and absolutely perfect chilly morning when my cell screen had whiteout. So I'm back.
So "going along to getting along," especially concerning local government, is an anathema to the democratic form of government. Who among council members voted to go along to get along?
Both Jefferson and James Madison felt that state support for a particular religion or for any religion was improper. They argued that "compelling citizens to support through taxation a faith they did not follow violated their natural right to religious liberty.
Councilmember Wright ought to have reclused himself from the vote. There is the perception of impropriaty. Wright is not only a local pastor, but he is also the President of the local Ministerial Asociation. Doing the right thing is really a very simple task, and it's the honorable thing to do.
Are there not other local 503(c)(3) charitable organizations that ought to have been considered? Moreover in my view Countmember Wright has a glaring conflict of interest.
The ends justifying the means Is a concept put forth by Macchiavellian. He advocated the hell with what's honorable -- go with what you want. That wrong philosophy ought never to outweigh Constitutional safeguards.
We've written the City Manager and asked what other 501c3 organizations were considered (if any) and will update if we hear back. The question of recusal is difficult - that's usually based on financial interest. Does it look bad? Yes. But it's more likely cronyism than something that would justify recusal. Cronyism undercuts transparency though, and probably accounts for Council not having an RFP process for finding an appropriate nonprofit. The saddest part of this is how it undercuts the application. If Council had partnered with a nonprofit with experience in climate justice / environmental protection / climate resilience it would strengthen our application for a building we badly need.Still, even with CLEP as the partner, I hope the application works out.
This sucks!!!!
Does z107 get this notice?
I have been trying to send to Facebook but can’t.
When you write “send to Facebook” - do you mean you are unable to share the article?
As an atheist I object to any money going from the City to any religious organizations or churches. And they should all be paying taxes just like any other business as that is what they are. I also really object to the invocation at the start of city council meetings. The meaning of invocation is the following:
The invocation is the opening prayer in the worship service and is a prayer which humbly, yet confidently (Hebrews 4:16) “invokes” the presence of God in worship. It is the congregation's faith-filled response to the call to worship and is done on behalf of the congregation by the minister.
Firstly, there should be a separation of church and state. Next, a city council is no place to have and invocation. There is an assumption that everyone is a Christian. That is very far from the truth. There are many other religions with different beliefs, plus the Atheists and Agnostics.
And from my point of view, the invocation is insulting. I will continue to sit down and browse emails on my phone during the invocation and I suggest that everyone who agrees with me, is ahtheist, agnostic or is of a different religion, also sits down during the invocation.
I agree with you Tom, and I also sit during invocations, even when I am at the press table. While researching a follow up piece on cronyism (also in my articles in process list), I came across a series of z107.7 stories tracking conversations on Council about the invocation….and I hope to return to those.
Check out our Council recap from December 12, 2023, for Elliot Balsley’s invocation from The Satanic Temple, an organization dedicated to activism around church + state issues. We also have a church + state tab in our article index and wrote an editorial back in May 2023 —“Crossing the Line” — asking if a City actions promoting a Mayor’s Prayer Breakfast with City social media and the City seal violated church / state separations. The City received a cease and desist letter from the Freedom From Religion Foundation after that so they backed off on taxpayer funded promotion of religious activities for a while. The fight for City tolerance for all beliefs (or lack thereof) continues.
Thank you for the reply and comments. I am actually a member of the FFRF. I am glad that they got involved. We have only been here just over a year so I will look up those pages.
And thanks for your paid subscription ❤️